So one of the most recent posts I made was about an older gentleman who has not left his name leaving a whole bunch of comments. Well, this person has brought up a past event that has been mentioned before on the old blog that I was unaware of which is that in 1975 a Kung Fu San Soo master put 5 of his students in a match against kickboxers and they got hurt (3 got knocked out and the other 2 lost by decision). Anyway, here are the two comments left that were made on the post about supposed san soo guys going against thai boxers (which I have written about being a complete lie.
IN 1975 LARRY WIKEL SENT 5 OF HIS GUYS INTO A FULL CONTACT FIGHT AT THE CULVER CITY ARENA. 3 WERE KNOCKED OUT. TWO LOST BY DECISION. THEY GOT HORRIBLE BEATINGS. I HAD BEEN BOXING SINCE I WAD (SIC) 8 YEARS OF AGE. I TOLD HIM HE WAS MAKING A BIG MISTAKE. HE HAS BEEN COVERING THAT UP FOR. YEARS. ANY OF THE SO CALLED 1ST GENERATION MASTERS COULD VERIFY IT. THE ONV9NCIBILITY (SIC) OF SAN SOO WAS DISPROVEN IN A FAIR FIGHT WITH ORDINARY KICKBOXERS. THE SAN SOO GUYS WERE BEATEN BADLY. WIKLE WAS KICKED OUT JIMMY WOOS. I SAW THE FIGHT.
Well, there you have it. This older gentleman is a supporter of Kung Fu San Soo and for him to bring this story to my attention does have merit. It doesn't surprise me that it could be true. YOU KNOW WHY? I went to KungFuSanSooHistory.com. A website made by "master" Ron Gatewood and left the two comments in an article he wrote about San Soo vs Muay Thai and guess what? I asked him since he is a 1st generation master if the events were true and he didn't respond. You'd think that a guy like Ron would want to reveal the truth, but knowing his old punk ass and being such a supporter of this play fighting art called san soo it doesn't surprise me he wouldn't want to answer such a question about an event being true and making san soo look bad. NEWS FLASH: MANY MARTIAL ARTISTS LIKE BJJ GUYS NEVER RESPECTED SAN SOO. I KNOW BECAUSE I'VE STUDIED BJJ AND KNOW HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT OTHER MARTIAL ARTS.
https://kungfusansoohistory.com/thai-boxers-part-3/
The link above will take you to Ron's website about crappy kung fu san soo and the article I left the question about if the event in 1975 took place. If he has integrity he knows for a fact I left the comment on his website in that article.
TO THE PERSON THAT IS VISITING MY BLOG AND LEAVING THE COMMENTS ABOUT THE FIGHT HAPPENING. THANK YOU. MAYBE YOU CAN GET RON TO ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT THE EVENT IN 1975 IN CULVER CITY ARENA SINCE RON WON'T ANSWER ME.
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CALL PAUL BORISOFF AT THE KUNG FU SAN SOO RESEDA SCHOOL. ADK HIM. IF HE IS HONEST HE WILL TELL YOU THAT THIS HAPPENED. IF RON GATEWOOD EILL NOT ADMIT IT HE IS A LIAR.
ReplyDeleteREMEMBET THESR WERE AVERAGE KICKBOXERS AND SOME WERE JUST AVERAGE AMATEUR BOXERS. LARRY WIKEL LEFT THE ASSOCIATION. JIMMY HAD A VOTE. ON HIM TO GET HIM OUT. IT WAS SO HUMILIATING. LARRY LEFT FOR SOUTH CAROLINA. CALL RON VON BROWNING IN TEXAS. HE. HAD A SAN SOO SCHOOL IN HUNTINGTON BEACH. HE NOW HAS A SCOOL IN TEXAS. HE. LATER ON. STUDIED. BJJ.
ReplyDeleteALSO CALL JUAN MEZA WHO RUNS A SCHOOL IN PICO RIVIERA. IF THEY TELL YOU THEY DO NOT REMEMBER THEY ARE LIARS. PAUL BORISOFF WAS. PROBABLY A WHITE BELTVWITH CHUCK CORY IN NOR T H HOLLYWOOD. HE WILL ADMIT THAT THIS HAPPENED. CALL HIM AT THE KUNG FU SAN SOO SCHOOL IN RESEDA. YOU CAN LOOK UP THE NUMBER ONLINE.
ReplyDeleteLISTE. I STARTED BOXING WHEN I WAS 8. I STARTED SAN SOO AS SOMETHING TO DO. I COULD SEE IT HAD UTILITY. I HAD BOXING EXPERIEN C E SO I COULD HANDLE MYSELF ALREADY. BUT I COULD SEE ITS LIMITATIONS. IF THEY WILL NOT ADMIT TO LARRY WIKELS STUDENTS LOSING 5 OUT OF FIVE IN A FAIR FIGHT THEY ARE LIERS. ALSO CALL LARRY ROUSE WHO IS THE MASTER WHO TEACHES AT THE PLAYA DEL REY SCHOOL. PAUL BORISOFF IS YOUR BEST BET. I BELIEVE HE WILL TELL YOU THE TRUTH.
ReplyDeleteTHIS WAS AN EMBARRASING MOMENT FOR KUNG FU SAN SOO. LAYY WIKEL HAD TO CLOSE HIS SCHOOL ON 5700 WEST PICO BLVD. NOBODY WANTED TO LEARN FROM HIM. HE TALKED ABOUT THIS FIGHT INCESSANTLY. I ALREADY KNEW THAT THESE SKILLED AMATEUR FIGHTERS WOULD KICK THE BUTTS OF LARRY'S GUYS. LARRYS GUYS GOT BEAT BAD. HE CLOSED DOWN. THSES SAN SOO GUYS LOOKED LIKE LAMBS AGAINST WOLVES. THIS IS AGAINST AVERAGE AMATER BOXERS AND KICK BOXERS.
ReplyDeleteI WAS VERY GOOD FRIENDS WITH DAVE CARTER THE WHITTIER MASTET. DAVE SIGNED UP FOR DAN SOO IN THE 60S FOR SOMETHING TO DO. HE TOLD ME THAT. HE HAD ALREADY BEEN A TWO TIME GOLDEN GLOVES MIDDLRWEIGHT CHAMPION. WHEN I MET. HIM IN 1975 HE WAS ABOUT 225LBS AT 5 FOOT 9. SOLID AS A ROCK. HE TOLD ME MOST OF THE SAN SOO GUYS WERE MAT FIGHTERS. HE TOLD ME THAT ANYBODY COULD LOOK GOOD WHEN. IT WAS YOUR TURN. I PERSONALLY SAW DAVE BACK DOWN JILLY RIZZO WHO HAD BEEN FRANK SINATRAS BODYGUARD IN A RESTAURANT IN PALM SPRINGS. DAVE WAS HALF ITALIAN BY HIS MOTHET. WENT B Y THE NAME CANDREVA. HE HAD A LOT OF INTERESTING CONNECTIONS. JIMMY WOO LOVED HAVI N G HIM AROUND BECAUSE IT GAVE HIS ART CREDIBILITY.
ReplyDeleteDave ended up being good friends with Jilly.... in the end before Jilly died. When we lived in Palm Springs.
DeleteDAVE USED TO TELL ME THAT JIMMY HAS A LOT OF MASTERBAT. YOU GET THE POINT. HE CALLED SAN SOO A SUCKER PUNCH ART.
ReplyDeleteGLAD I COULD FILL IN THE BLANKS.
ReplyDeleteRON VON BROWNING WAS THEIR FOR THE VOTE AT THE EL MONTE SCHOOL. HE VOTED FOR THROWING LARRY OUT. JERRY PRINCE WHO IS DEAD VOTED TO KEEP LARRY IN. JIMMY WANTED HIM OUT BUT HE WANTED TO HAVE HIS TOP V 9NSTRUCTORS VOTE HIM OUT. DAVE CARTER. STAYED HOME. DAVE DID NOT CARE EITHER WAY. THERE WAD A LOT OF SUBTLE PRESSURE. I THINK LARRY WAS NOT KICKED OUT. MAY HAVE WON BY A VOTE. HE LEFT ANYWAY. CLOSED DOWN HIS STUDIO AND MOVED OUT OF STATE. LATER ON HE CAME BACK IN THE MID 80S AND STARTED A SCHOOL. IN CULVER CITY.
ReplyDeleteCALL RAUL RIES. HE RAN THE COVINA SCHOOL. HE HEADS UP THE DIAMOND BAR CALVARY CHAPEL. HE HAS KUNG FU CLASSES TWO OR THREE TIMES PER WEEK. HE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT WIKELS GUYS GETTING THEIR BUTTS KICKED.
ReplyDeleteJERRY DRUCKETMAN WHO TEACHESCAT AN ATHLETIC CLUB IN DIAMOND BAR SHOULD BE ABLE TO CONFIRM IT. HE WAS AROUND. HE KNOWS IT HAPPENED. BILL LASSITET RECENTLY DIED AND JERRY PRINCE I BELIEVEVDIED IN 2015.
ReplyDeleteAsk RON GATEWOOD IF THEIR WAS AN INSTRUCTORS VOTE ON KICKING LARRY OUT OF THE OLD JIMMY WOO ASSOCIATION AFTET LARRYS 5 GUYS HAD 5 LOSSES AT THE CULVET CITY ARENA. ASK RON V ON BROWNING IN TEXAS. ASK JUAN MESA WHO HAD A SCHOOL IN PICO RIVERA MAYBE IT IS TECHNICALLY WHITTIER. ASK JACK WHO TOOK. OVET THE SCHOOL. ASK JACKS BROTHET HARRY. ASK RAUL RIES.
ReplyDeleteRON GATEWOOD SEEMS TO KNOW THE HISTORY OF SAN SOO. HE WENT TO CHINA. HE WROTE BOOKS. HE SELLS THEM ON AMAZON. I AM A LOT MORE FAVORABLE ON SAN SOO THAN A LOT OF PEOPLE. BUT THE TEUTH IS THE TRUTH. RON GATEWOOD HAS TO TELL THE WHOLE TEUTH OR HE IS LTING BY OMISSION. HE SHOULD KNOW THAT AS A COP.
ReplyDeleteTHEY HAVE TO ADMIT LARRY WIKELS GUYS LOST 5 FIGHTS IN 1975 AND JIMMY WAS SO EMBARRASSED THAT HE HAD A VOTE TO KICK HIM OUT. RON GATEWOOD KNOWS THIS.
ReplyDeletePaul BORISOFF knows it is true because DON MCCLELLEN WHO WAS ONE. OF. THE GUYS KNOCKED OUT STOPS BY PAUL'S STUDIO ONCE IN A WHILE AND HITS PAUL'S HEAVY BAG. I CALL. PAUL ONCE IN A WHILE AND ALWAUS JOKE WITH HIM ABOUT GETTING DON A REMATCH.
ReplyDeleteHOPEFULLY YOU GET AN HONEST ANSWER FROM THESE GUYS.
ReplyDeleteLIKE DAVE CARTER USED TO SAY. HOW CAN YOU CALL YOURSELF A FIGHTER IF YOU NEVER FOUGHT.
ReplyDeleteRON'S NON ANSWER IS THE ANSWER.
ReplyDeleteI USED TO OWN A RENTAL PROPERTY IN SANTA. ANA CA. ONE OF THE TENANT'S SONS WAD GETTING BULLIED AT JOS JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL. HE WAS IN SUCH FEAR HE WOULD NOT EVEN GO TO SCHOOL. I TOOK H IM AND HIS MOTHET TO A GRACIE BARRA SCHOOL OVER ON 18TH STREET. I PAID A YEARS TUITION AND FOR HIS UNI F ORM; I WAS SO PISSED OFF. THE KID WORKED OUT 3 TIMES A WEEK AND IN 3 MO N THS TIME HE DESTROYED THE BULLY. 3 MONTHS FROM A HIGHLY MOTIVATED KID WORKING OUT 3 DAYS A. WEEK. MY HAT IS OFF TO THE GRACIES. I DID NOT TAKE HIM TO A SAN SOO SCHOOL.
ReplyDeleteI have been in and around San Soo since the 60s. My name is Chuck Pittman and am recognized as a San Soo teacher and student. Some great points are being made but put it in its right place. Like so many styles modern age came. In its hey day San Soo was an awesome system. The competition was low. It was meant to be a self defense system against the common attacker and somehow in modern time it is being spoke of as if it is a system meeting the standards of something it never claimed to be. That is one of a sport system. Randori is something that someone who wants to meet a challenge against a skilled opponent in a set match studys. This is far from self defense. Now take San Soo like Shark Karate ore say Tim Cartmel and blend it like the sport arts do. It has awesome leverages throws and lots of skilled techniques but taught in a weak fashion. San Soo is simply a skilled system of writing down techniques for later study. And at the time of its development and it its location it did well. Modern times demand expansion. So rather than say its woerthless why not be honest and say its not complete. I love San Soo and also love Catch Wrestling. Thai Boxing is awesome. Kathy Long won against many pro thai boxers in fact she was listed the queen of pain. She is a 10th degree San Soo. But even she studies BJJ also. Its a great blend. NHB style.
ReplyDeleteNo such thing as 10th degree in San Soo.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteDave Carter was a 10th degree in San Soo. RIP Dave.
DeleteThis post does not take my response?
ReplyDeleteI did not receive a note from you, I would not have responded as I consider you a mental case. To spend many years in flaming rage would lead one to believe this may be lovers quarrel, did someone dump you. I have tried to answer your questions and you will not listen. No one wants to play, so you can play with yourself.
I'm surprised you came to my blog. I didn't expect you to stop by and read it.
DeleteQuit the fighting you look bad. He said what this and that who cares?? No one got hurt out of it and alot of BS on the web now because of it. My Brother Bob, God Bless Him Loved Jimi Woo. I can't believe that his students and associates don't make his teachings of humility and humbleness did'nt go far. The Thai folks care less look at Jimi's days in El Monte and how our art was loved and respected. How can it be again if everyone of value lost theirs. Quit it.
DeleteAs far as calling San Soo a piece of crap Get educated. I also study other systems and teach other systems. You are calling a GREAT ART bad names to look cool or tough. BS So what you can win in a match SAN SOO was never meant to be a SPORT !!! You obviously come as an uneducated brawler trying to play WWE. I am to old and wise to play tough guy with you and won't have a who's wiser brawl as you show lack of insight and wisdom you are simply a tough guy brawler. Most folks who take SAN SOO have no intention of being like you. They want a peaceful life and just some self defense and healthy lifestyle to go with it. You need be on the WWE page and talk with Hulk Hogan and them. This is just a slam dunk of and idiot who wants a name. Go pick on another dummy. Hehe you are really stupid.
DeleteAs far as Gracie's goes my brother also trained with Royce for 6 years in Torrance. Bob loved Royce and BJJ as he loved San Soo. Why is it in MMA you see less ground and less, more boxing with a few kicks mostly stand up. Why , because the guy cross trained. There is no perfect art but there is perfect teachers. Being SAFE is not about winning the brawl. It's about being wise enough to stay out of it. Jimi and Royce both taught this. I know some great Wrestlers who say their's is best. Randy Coture, as an example. Matt Hughes. It's all in your goals and some are not simply to wim a brawl go to the WWE page.
DeleteOh yea my brother owned TapouT Magazine and Body Guard. I have been around NHB for over 40 years. I learnt Humility. But this is just stupid.
ReplyDeletehehe sorry folks but this is lame!!! Chuck Pittman here. I LOVE SAN SOO roll outs are so cool.I love kick punches take downs throws and yep GROUND techniques. Forms are awesome for conditioning and yep WEAPONS !!! From Frank to Ron Van and all of em. GOD BLESS YOU SAN SOO rocks and I am here to say it. Awesome holds and counters and GREAT TEACHERS !!
ReplyDeleteSome of the problems started with Larry Wikel making stuff up. San Soo meets a real need for self defense. Everybody cannot train muy thai and BJJ.
ReplyDeleteChuck, you make great points. San Soo can be effective in street situations that erupt spontaneously. I think Larry Wikel got a little overenthusiastic with his b.s.
ReplyDeleteYup Thank you God Bless Ya Gotta love this stuff. Forgive my big mouth.
ReplyDelete